Guest Submission: The FRAUD of Greenhouse gas global warming

My response can be found at the end of this guest submission.

From: Bill Andrews

Date:12/31/2014 11:13 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: DOGW.email@gmail.com

Subject: The FRAUD of Greenhouse gas global warming.

How do you do.

The FRAUD of Greenhouse Gas emissions raising the temperature of the Earth can be proven false by two distinct methods. 

   1.  By examination of what Insulators are and do; and,

    2.  By examining planet VENUS.  

IF Greenhouse gases can warm a planet then Venus should prove it.  Venus is wrapped in a 50km thick layer of 95% CO2!  If that much CO2 can't warm VENUS, then the Earths messily 0.06% CO2 can't either.

Enjoy reading Science, for a change.  And remember, 

DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU READ ON THE INTERNET.  VERIFY EVERYTHING PEOPLE TELL YOU., AND DO THE MATH YOURSELF!!!!

NICE PEOPLE LIE TOO, VERIFY!!!!!!

PART 1.

INSULATORS,  WHAT THEY DO FOR YOU.

in•su•late

ˈinsəˌlāt/

verb

1.   protect (something) by interposing material that prevents loss.

As the definition above indicates, and insulator is a "material", which protects you from what is on the other side of the material.

We use insulators in many ways.  Some insulators protect us from sounds.

Others from the electrical flow in wires or machinery.  In our lesson we are going to only be speaking about THERMAL INSULATORS.

A Thermal Insulator is any material that is used to REDUCE or STOP HEAT TRANSFER. 

The Third Law of Thermo-dynamics tells us that Heat moves from High concentration to Low concentration; or, from hot to cold.   This process is know as THERMAL EQUILIBRIUM.

The most common form of thermal insulation in peoples lives is the insulation in their homes. 

Your home has insulation in the outer walls and roof, and possibly in the floor as well.  This keeps the heat of summer OUT of your house.  In the Winter it keeps the heat IN your home.

The gases and water vapor in the Earth's atmosphere do the same thing for the Earth that they do for your home, they insulate us FROM the Sun's heat and light rays, cooling the Earth and protecting us from the harmful high energy rays that cause skin cancer. They also help keep us from loosing waste heat, especially at night when we are facing away from the sun.

The important question is, what is the total NET EFFECT of the insulating going on in the atmosphere?

Does it block out more heat than it helps to keep in, thus cooling the Earth? or, 

Does it capture more heat than it blocks out warming the Earth?

The answer to this question is simple, isn't it?  

The Sun:  big burning ball of gas,  VERY hot.

The Earth:  Cold rock floating in space, warmed by the Sun.

The Sun sends in 30,000,000 times more heat than the Earth re radiates out each day, and most of this heat stays here.  That's not surprising is it?

If the Earth radiated all the Sun's heat out each day, then the Earth would be Zero degrees Kelvin every morning, since there would be no heat because it all radiated away at nigh.  All water would freeze solid every night, and life on Earth would be impossible, plants would all die of frostbite and mankind would never have come into existence.  

For water to remain liquid, it MUST HAVE SOME HEAT to keep its temperature above freezing. 

The heat that radiates out is Earth's WASTE HEAT.  The heat that is not absorbed by the Earth's life and seas.  

So for every 1 degree of heat the gases and water vapor help keep in at night, the sun sends in 30,000,000 degrees of heat.

Thus, if there is a 1% insulating gas in the atmosphere, it will stop 1% of the heat entering and leaving from entering or leaving.  BUT the amount of heat blocked out will always be 30,000,000 times greater than the heat reflected back in.  

Thus, the NET EFFECT of any insulating gas or vapor in the atmosphere will always create a greater COOLING effect than a warming effect, since the net effect is it will keep far more heat out than in.    

So let me ask you a question?

Tell me, what the Earth would be like if Mankind put a perfect 100% insulator into the atmosphere?

Yes it would keep in all the heat already in the Earth's atmosphere BUT, it would also block out ALL of the Sun's heat and light from entering as well,  Eternal Night!  

What would that be like?  Would it create a Runaway Greenhouse effect, or a very cold and dark Earth with no life on it?

Or think of it like this:

In the fall as harvest time nears, farmers are always afraid that an early frost will set in and kill their crops.  Whenever news of a cold spell is in the air, the Farmers all pray for warm weather, or Cloud cover if it does gets cold.  

WHY clouds?  

Water vapor is the MOST insulation gas of them all and clouds are all water vapor. 

When the sky is overcast, completely covered in clouds at night, the waste heat radiated from the ground into the air is partly captured by the water vapor and redirected towards the earth.

This helps to keep the ambient air temperature higher.  With no cloud cover the heat would find it much easier to shoot out into space and the Earth would cool much more rapidly.

BUT during the day, when the heat is coming from outside our atmosphere, from the Sun, clouds have the opposite effect.  Clouds lower the temperature by blocking out the sun's heat from entering the atmosphere.  Here in sunny Southern California an August day can drop from the mid 90's to the low 70's with a cloud bank overhead.

Clouds don't create a global warming effect do they? And water vapor is thousands of times more insulating than CO2!   Clouds block out the Sun cooling the Earth.  Even though the earth is radiating heat back out during the day just like it does at night.  The heat radiated back towards the Earth by the clouds just isn't enough to make up for the lost heat the clouds have blocked out of the atmosphere.

Whatever the thermal insulator in our atmosphere is, the result will always be the same.  If we block out the Sun's heat we will be colder.  No other result is possible.  We get our heat from the Sun, heat blocked out is lost and cannot be made up for.

PART 2

THE VENUS LIE.  FRAUD BY OMISSION.

The most common lie told by global warming advocates is that the Earth will become like Venus if we continue to put CO2 into the atmosphere, it will be incredibly hot they say, because Venus is!!!

In Part 1 I argue that that it is impossible!  It's impossible for Venus to be hot, it has a 95% CO2 atmosphere, and not just that, but it is 50 kilometers thick.  Over 5 times the thickness of the Earth's Nitrogen/Oxygen atmosphere.  

THAT much CO2 will almost completely block out the sun itself!!!  So how can Venus be hot?

To find out let's look at Venus and see if its 50km thick atmosphere of insulating CO2 gas is cooling or heating the planets surface shall we?

According to NASA's web site [http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Venus] Venus' has a temperature of 864 degrees Farenheit [F] (462 degrees Celcius [C],735 degrees Kelvin[K]).

That's...hot?!?!?!

According the United States' National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association web site [https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/2012-state-climate-earths-surface-temperature], the average temperature of the Earth in 2013 was 57.2 degrees F (14 degrees C, 287 degrees K).

I seem to be wrong don't I?  Venus is much hotter than the Earth, when I said it should be much colder because all that CO2 would insulate the planet's surface from the Sun's much greater heat at only 2/3rds the distance of the Earth from the sun.  

Boy do I feel dumb!

Or...maybe I don't, what do you think?

Well now, the title of this second part does mention "fraud by omission".  That means that someone isn't telling you everything you need to know to understand that you are being lied to, defrauded. 

I'll presume you want to know what I know, so I'll tell you how they are defrauding you.

Do you remember leaning in high school science a little law know as GAY-LUSSAC'S LAW? 

You might have learned it as the PRESSURE TEMPERATURE LAW.

It tells us that pressure and temperature are directly related.  Any change in one creates an identical change in the other. 

This relationship was discovered by the French Chemist/Scientist Joseph Louis Gay-Lussac, and he published his findings 1702. 

In short it tells us that there are TWO TYPES OF HEAT.  One is temperate heat, while the other is Pressure heat.  

Heat and Pressure are in fact... the same thing!  They are measures of the amount of Kinetic Energy in a gas.  

You can increase the Kinetic energy of a gas by :

1. Compressing it into a smaller space, or 

2,  By burning a fuel and heating it.

When we are speaking of man made global warming, we aren't speaking about Pressure Heat, we are talking about temperate heat from the Sun.  

How does the concept of Pressure Heat apply to Venus?  It is how they are lying!

The Earth's atmospheric pressure is 1 (one) atmosphere (atm).

Venus however, has an atmospheric pressure of 90 atms!  Ninety times greater than the Earth.

That's a lot of Pressure heat!

So if we are to know the Solar Temperate Heat of Venus, we need to remove all that Pressure heat.  Thankfully, Gay-Lussac drew up the formula for doing just that, it is this:

P1/T1 = P2/T2.    

This says that the Starting Pressure (P1) [in atmospheres] divided by the starting Temperature (T1) [in degrees Kelvin] is equal to the ending Pressure (P2), divided by the ending Temperature (T2).

If you prefer multiplication to fractions it is written this way:

P1 x T2 = P2 x T1

The starting Pressure times the ending Temperature is equal to the ending Pressure times the Starting Temperature. 

Makes perfect since... right?

So, let's do the math and find out if I'm lying, or the climate changers are lying shall we? 

We want to know the temperature of Venus at 1 atm like the Earth.  So we are looking for T2, the ending temperature at the lower pressure of 1 atm.  We need to rewrite the formula to find the ending temperature T2 of Venus which looks like this:

T2 = (P2T1)/P1.  

We just moved P1 to  the left side of the formula, which reversed the multiplication to division. 

Now we put in the numbers which looks like this:

T2 = (1atm x 735K)/90atm

1 times 735 = 735.  

735 divided by 90 is 8.166666K.

So  T2 = 8.166666K  which is -264.983334 degrees C, or -444.969994 degrees F!!!!!!!!!!

Well looky here.  When we remove all of Venus' Pressure Heat, the Solar Temperate Heat from the Sun is only MINUS (-)444.969994 degrees Fahrenheit.  

Isn't the average temperature of the Earth (57.2 degrees F) warmer than minus 

(-)444.969994 degrees F?  

I think it is!

AND THAT IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE EARTH'S TEMPERATURE IF WE PUT THAT MUCH CO2 INTO EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE AS WELL!!!

It will block out almost all the heat from the Sun and turn the Earth into an ice cube!

NOW DO THE MATH YOURSELF!

Don't trust me, nice people lie too.  Verify I'm telling you the truth. Google Gay-Lussac's law and make sure I didn't cheat.  Get the temperature and pressure of Earth and Venus, then do the math yourself, you've a calculator and computer use them.  Chumps trust people, Verify everything you are told, don't be lazy.  

AND NOW YOU KNOW THE TRUTH!

You may now thank me.

Response:

I have seen this one making the rounds in bits and drabs. This is the most complete version that I have see, though. Without resorting to hyperbole, this is one of the most anti-science claims I have ever seen. Truthfully, this submission exemplifies why I say the only way you can be a denier is to reject science.

Mr. Andrews stated, “Don't trust me, nice people lie too.  Verify I'm telling you the truth.” No problem.

Part 1: Insulators

This has become a very common false claim by deniers – if CO₂ absorbs heat, then that means it is absorbing the Sun’s radiation and actually cooling the planet. Not surprisingly, the first person I heard making this claim was an executive in the coal industry.

If you had any doubts about the validity of Mr. Andrews’ claim, this one line should convince you it is totally crazy:

“The Sun sends in 30,000,000 times more heat than the Earth re radiates out each day, and most of this heat stays here.  That's not surprising is it?”

He says to get your calculator out and do the math yourself. Well, let’s see, daily incoming heat is 30,000,000 times the amount of outgoing heat and let’s multiply that by 365 days a year and that comes out to…. I can’t read it because the entire room has erupted in flames! My calculator has melted in the charred remains of what used to be my hands!

If thirty million times as much heat comes in every day as goes out, then the total amount of energy will climb at an astonishing rate. The amount of heat going out has to be close to the amount coming in or the planet will not just warm up, it will incinerate – literally, at Mr. Andrews’ quoted rate. It is very important to the planet to have a net heat balance of zero, meaning just as much heat goes out as comes in. What greenhouse gases have done is to alter that balance very slightly in the positive direction. This is enough to change the climate because one day’s worth of incoming heat from the Sun is roughly equal to 100 years of total human energy production (at current rates). We get a lot of energy from the Sun, so even a very small change in how much is retained makes a difference. Thank our lucky stars it isn’t a factor of thirty million different.

Mr. Andrews then states,

If the Earth radiated all the Sun's heat out each day, then the Earth would be Zero degrees Kelvin every morning, since there would be no heat because it all radiated away at nigh.  All water would freeze solid every night, and life on Earth would be impossible, plants would all die of frostbite and mankind would never have come into existence.

This is very similar to the situation on the Moon. The temperature gets very high in the sunlight, but very cold in the shade and at night. The important part is what he isn’t telling you here and you have to wonder why he leaves it out. Why doesn't this happen here on Earth? The reason we don’t go to zero Kelvins every night is because we have an atmosphere and it holds heat in. At some point in the past, a small amount of heat was retained by the atmosphere. In theory, the atmosphere would eventually reach thermal equilibrium where the amount coming in is equal to the amount going out and the temperature would be steady. Of course, the situation is constantly changing from a multitude of causes and thermal equilibrium is never perfectly achieved, but the planet is very close to it as a whole. That means there is a heat reservoir in the atmosphere that prevents us from freezing at night. Picture being in a bed with a blanket over you. At first, you might be cold when you get under the blanket, but then it warms up and you reach some constant temperature. You have achieved a thermal equilibrium where the amount of heat entering the blanket from you body is equal to the amount of heat radiating out through the top. If this didn’t happen, you would continue to get hotter and hotter. Then, suppose you get up to get a drink of water. When you come back to bed you find the blanket is still warm. It has acted as a heat reservoir and it takes time for it to lose its retained heat. The atmosphere works the same way. It gets heated during the day (by infrared radiation from the surface, not the sunlight). When nighttime comes, it will retain that heat for a while and any additional IR radiation coming from the heated surface. Given enough time, it would continue to cool down to unpleasant levels, but that would take many days or months (the polar regions do this when they experience long a nighttime in winter).

Simply put, if we didn’t have an atmosphere, the planet would be about 33 degrees C lower than it is currently. The net effect of the atmosphere keeps us warm, not cold.

His final statement in this section is,

Whatever the thermal insulator in our atmosphere is, the result will always be the same.  If we block out the Sun's heat we will be colder.  No other result is possible.  We get our heat from the Sun, heat blocked out is lost and cannot be made up for.

This is a false argument. He is giving you only one option – block out the sunlight and we will be colder. What he is not saying is colder than what? If you stand in the shade in the middle of a summer day you will be colder than if you are standing in the direct sunlight. That does not mean you are cold. Yes, clouds in the daytime helps keep us cooler by reflecting sunlight back into space. They also keep us warmer at night by trapping heat that would otherwise radiate back into space. The total role of cloud cover in the climate change mix is not fully understood and it is sometimes called the ‘wild card of climate change'.

Part 2: Venus

It doesn’t take Mr. Andrews long to make a false statement:

The most common lie told by global warming advocates is that the Earth will become like Venus if we continue to put CO2 into the atmosphere, it will be incredibly hot they say, because Venus is!!!

There are a few people warning about a possible Venus scenario, but the general scientific population discounts that possibility. Oneresearcher that investigated this found we would need to go to CO₂ levels of about 30,000 parts per million (ppm). We are currently at about 400 ppm. It would take burning about 10 times as much oil, coal and gas as exist to reach that level. So, is it possible? Yes. Can we cause it to happen by burning fossil fuels? No, we can’t.

He finally says something I agree with,

I seem to be wrong don't I?  Venus is much hotter than the Earth, when I said it should be much colder because all that CO2 would insulate the planet's surface from the Sun's much greater heat at only 2/3rds the distance of the Earth from the sun.  

Boy do I feel dumb!

I’m glad to hear that because it was pretty much what I was thinking. Unfortunately, he isn’t satisfied with that and has to continue on the downward slope.

When we are speaking of man made global warming, we aren't speaking about Pressure Heat, we are talking about temperate heat from the Sun.  

To get straight to the point, there is no such thing as ‘pressure heat.’ Mr. Andrews needs to do a little homework on the laws of thermodynamics.  He is engaging in a misdirection by employing what is known as the Gay-Lussac’s lawor Amonton’s law. What this law says is if you are given a gas that is isolated from any surrounding environment, the gas pressure divided by the gas temperature will always be the same. Thus, if you increase the pressure, the temperature must also increase at the same rate. If you double the pressure, the absolute temperature (measured from absolute zero) will also double.

This is what Mr. Andrews is calling ‘pressure heat’ and, again, there is no such thing. The reason is that this heat is already IN THE SYSTEM! We cannot create or destroy energy. When we compress a gas, the amount of energy in the gas remains the same, but now has a smaller volume to occupy and the energy density will go up. Another word for energy density is temperature. Pressure does not create any heat.

Mr. Andrews wants to say all of the heat trapped in Venus’ atmosphere is ‘pressure heat’ and if you remove that heat the temperature on Venus would be 265 degrees below zero Celsius. Mr. Andrews is actually somewhat correct, but not the way he wants you to think. This is where he is either stunningly ignorant of what he is talking about (very possible) or his in intentionally working to deceive (also very possible). His terms would actually be pretty valid if we were to take the atmosphere of Venus and suddenly expand it to 90 times it's current volume so the average pressure dropped to the atmosphere of Earth. This is how air conditioning and refrigeration work. What Mr. Andrews isn’t telling you (he does that a lot) is that once this expansion occurred, the incoming solar radiation would then heat it up again. Then, once it was heated, if you compressed it back to its original volume the temperature would sky rocket way past the original temperature. 

What he is also not telling you is that this could not occur. The atmosphere of Venus cannot suddenly expand to 90 times it's current volume. Gravity prevents that from happening. What he is also not telling you is the part about the gas has to be isolated from the surrounding environment. That cannot happen. We can keep the interaction to a minimum if things happen quickly, but no system can ever be completely isolated from its surroundings.

His claim that Venus is hot because of ‘pressure heat’ is 100% false and there is no science to even suggest such a thing.  He is merely trying to misdirect people into thinking CO₂ is not responsible for trapping heat. Sorry, Mr. Andrews, but you are completely wrong. CO₂ absorbs outgoing infrared radiation and reradiates it back out in random directions. This slows down the rate heat can escape the planet. The more greenhouse gases there are, the slower the energy will escape and the higher the temperature will rise. This is what is happening on Venus and it is what is happening on Earth.

 

Sorry, Mr. Andrews. You’re claims are not only invalid, but incredibly invalid.

You may now thank me.

Thank you for giving me this opportunity to debunk this silly claim.